I’ve been chatting online with David Kern, editor-in-chief at Forma, about faith and art for many, many years — but we’ve never had a long conversation that didn’t involve a keyboard until recently. Now, in a short span of weeks, we’ve had two. Even stranger — David recorded both conversations, and you can listen in on them.

You might even want to: We talked about an amazing artist, amazing books, and a lot of amazing movies.

David invited me to talk about why I love Madeleine L’Engle, author of A Wrinkle in Time and Walking on Water. I didn’t need to be convinced: I am so grateful for L’Engle’s imagination, faith, intelligence, and influence. So I appeared as a guest on the FORMA podcast, and I went into detail on why I think L’Engle was such a super genius.

You can listen to that here:

Then, several weeks later, Kern welcomed me as a guest on yet another podcast: Libromania, a show for “the book-obsessed.” The subject? The best movies of 2018.

Why talk about movies on a podcast about books? Hmm. I suppose it comes down to storytelling. David and I talked a lot about how the narratives in these films run counter to expectations and offer meaningful visions in a time when we need wisdom and conscience.

At the time, I was still organizing my list, but that didn’t stop us from running past an hour in deep, detailed conversation about the value of lists and the movies that meant the most to us. We laughed a lot, too.

I’m grateful to David for including me on these adventurous podcasts. You’re invited to listen in and share your own thoughts on either of these subjects, if you’re so moved.